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	<title>Comments on: The Reader &#8211; Book Review</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.caribousmom.com/2008/08/16/the-reader-book-review/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.caribousmom.com/2008/08/16/the-reader-book-review/</link>
	<description>reading a good book with a furchild by my side</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:14:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Caribousmom</title>
		<link>http://www.caribousmom.com/2008/08/16/the-reader-book-review/comment-page-1/#comment-7198</link>
		<dc:creator>Caribousmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=1024#comment-7198</guid>
		<description>30 Great Books: THANK YOU for stopping by. I have gotten so slammed on my position on this book - so it is great to hear from another reader who felt as I did. There was so much I hated about this book, I could have written my own book talking about it *laughs*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>30 Great Books: THANK YOU for stopping by. I have gotten so slammed on my position on this book &#8211; so it is great to hear from another reader who felt as I did. There was so much I hated about this book, I could have written my own book talking about it *laughs*</p>
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		<title>By: 30greatbooks</title>
		<link>http://www.caribousmom.com/2008/08/16/the-reader-book-review/comment-page-1/#comment-7195</link>
		<dc:creator>30greatbooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 01:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=1024#comment-7195</guid>
		<description>I laughed when I came across your review because I folded down the exact same pages to make the exact same points!

However, I was mostly annoyed by Michael&#039;s lack of true introspection and his contentment to blame everyone else, which seems like the easiest road to take:

http://30greatbooks.blogspot.com/2009/04/9-reader-bernhard-schlink.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I laughed when I came across your review because I folded down the exact same pages to make the exact same points!</p>
<p>However, I was mostly annoyed by Michael&#8217;s lack of true introspection and his contentment to blame everyone else, which seems like the easiest road to take:</p>
<p><a href="http://30greatbooks.blogspot.com/2009/04/9-reader-bernhard-schlink.html" rel="nofollow">http://30greatbooks.blogspot.com/2009/04/9-reader-bernhard-schlink.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Caribousmom</title>
		<link>http://www.caribousmom.com/2008/08/16/the-reader-book-review/comment-page-1/#comment-6046</link>
		<dc:creator>Caribousmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=1024#comment-6046</guid>
		<description>Serena: Glad you have enjoyed the discussion (there is also more of this on the Noteworthy News thread). If I had liked the book, I&#039;d recommend you read it...but I can&#039;t really recommend it *laughs*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serena: Glad you have enjoyed the discussion (there is also more of this on the Noteworthy News thread). If I had liked the book, I&#8217;d recommend you read it&#8230;but I can&#8217;t really recommend it *laughs*</p>
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		<title>By: Serena (Savvy Verse &#38; Wit)</title>
		<link>http://www.caribousmom.com/2008/08/16/the-reader-book-review/comment-page-1/#comment-6026</link>
		<dc:creator>Serena (Savvy Verse &#38; Wit)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=1024#comment-6026</guid>
		<description>I really liked the discussion.  Too bad it isn&#039;t me.  I have not read nor seen the movie of this book yet, so alas I have nothing to add!  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really liked the discussion.  Too bad it isn&#8217;t me.  I have not read nor seen the movie of this book yet, so alas I have nothing to add!  <img src='http://www.caribousmom.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Caribousmom</title>
		<link>http://www.caribousmom.com/2008/08/16/the-reader-book-review/comment-page-1/#comment-6025</link>
		<dc:creator>Caribousmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=1024#comment-6025</guid>
		<description>Serena (Savvy Verse): *laughing* I must admit that I at first thought Serena #1&#039;s comment was from you :) I like when we can get a good discussion going here...and it has remained civil despite the very wide separation of opinion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serena (Savvy Verse): *laughing* I must admit that I at first thought Serena #1&#8242;s comment was from you <img src='http://www.caribousmom.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I like when we can get a good discussion going here&#8230;and it has remained civil despite the very wide separation of opinion!</p>
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		<title>By: Serena (Savvy Verse &#38; Wit)</title>
		<link>http://www.caribousmom.com/2008/08/16/the-reader-book-review/comment-page-1/#comment-6003</link>
		<dc:creator>Serena (Savvy Verse &#38; Wit)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=1024#comment-6003</guid>
		<description>Wow, I had no idea that there is another Serena reviewing books out on the Internet.  Great discussion ladies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I had no idea that there is another Serena reviewing books out on the Internet.  Great discussion ladies.</p>
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		<title>By: Caribousmom</title>
		<link>http://www.caribousmom.com/2008/08/16/the-reader-book-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5975</link>
		<dc:creator>Caribousmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=1024#comment-5975</guid>
		<description>Serena: 

Thanks for stopping by and leaving your well-written rebuttal for those of use who did not like this book! I understand the points you are making, but I disagree. I&#039;m not sure you can entirely draw a parallel between the enslavement of African-Americans with Hanna being illiterate - although I will agree that if one cannot read they are significantly limited in society (and many slaves were illiterate too). I would argue, however, that most illiterate slaves did not perform evil acts - in fact, the rich history of African Americans shows a strong moral base even during the periods of slavery despite illiteracy and regular abuse by their captors.

What is the basis of morality? How does it develop? There are many wonderful studies and articles that deal with this...which would be an article on this blog in and of itself! Being illiterate does not mean that Hanna had no heart in her chest - she stood and watched a church burn with women and children locked inside even though she held the key to save them. This, I think, was less about her being illiterate and more about her being completely embroiled in the Nazi doctrine and afraid to be the only one who would do the right thing.

Certainly we do not condone (or excuse) the acts of the serial killer because his parents abused him...we acknowledge his horrible childhood and we still convict him of the crimes (and often give him the death penalty). So, although there were reasons Hanna may have acted as she did (and we want to understand them), we should not excuse her actions because of those reasons. Likewise, the terrorists who attacked our nation were misguided in their religious zeal, and yet there are few (if any) of us who would argue that what they did should be excused because they were misguided.

Lastly, I do not think that an adult woman preying on a child is less than an adult man preying on a child. The damage to the child is no different based on the sex of the abuser. Yes, Hanna had her needs met...and that narcissistic behavior had far reaching (negative) impacts on her victim. I don&#039;t care why she did it. She was the adult; she needed to resist her own selfish needs (wherever they came from) and not do what she did.

I want to make one final point - although I disagreed with this book&#039;s basic premise, I might have rated it higher (based on how it stimulates discussion) had Schlink been a decent writer. But I thought his writing was dull...poor in fact. He took what could have been compelling (in my opinion) and weighted it down with crappy prose...which was (and is) one of my biggest complaints of the book.

Thank you for your comments, Serena - although we disagree, I have found this to be a stimulating and interesting discussion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serena: </p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by and leaving your well-written rebuttal for those of use who did not like this book! I understand the points you are making, but I disagree. I&#8217;m not sure you can entirely draw a parallel between the enslavement of African-Americans with Hanna being illiterate &#8211; although I will agree that if one cannot read they are significantly limited in society (and many slaves were illiterate too). I would argue, however, that most illiterate slaves did not perform evil acts &#8211; in fact, the rich history of African Americans shows a strong moral base even during the periods of slavery despite illiteracy and regular abuse by their captors.</p>
<p>What is the basis of morality? How does it develop? There are many wonderful studies and articles that deal with this&#8230;which would be an article on this blog in and of itself! Being illiterate does not mean that Hanna had no heart in her chest &#8211; she stood and watched a church burn with women and children locked inside even though she held the key to save them. This, I think, was less about her being illiterate and more about her being completely embroiled in the Nazi doctrine and afraid to be the only one who would do the right thing.</p>
<p>Certainly we do not condone (or excuse) the acts of the serial killer because his parents abused him&#8230;we acknowledge his horrible childhood and we still convict him of the crimes (and often give him the death penalty). So, although there were reasons Hanna may have acted as she did (and we want to understand them), we should not excuse her actions because of those reasons. Likewise, the terrorists who attacked our nation were misguided in their religious zeal, and yet there are few (if any) of us who would argue that what they did should be excused because they were misguided.</p>
<p>Lastly, I do not think that an adult woman preying on a child is less than an adult man preying on a child. The damage to the child is no different based on the sex of the abuser. Yes, Hanna had her needs met&#8230;and that narcissistic behavior had far reaching (negative) impacts on her victim. I don&#8217;t care why she did it. She was the adult; she needed to resist her own selfish needs (wherever they came from) and not do what she did.</p>
<p>I want to make one final point &#8211; although I disagreed with this book&#8217;s basic premise, I might have rated it higher (based on how it stimulates discussion) had Schlink been a decent writer. But I thought his writing was dull&#8230;poor in fact. He took what could have been compelling (in my opinion) and weighted it down with crappy prose&#8230;which was (and is) one of my biggest complaints of the book.</p>
<p>Thank you for your comments, Serena &#8211; although we disagree, I have found this to be a stimulating and interesting discussion!</p>
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		<title>By: Amy @ My Friend Amy</title>
		<link>http://www.caribousmom.com/2008/08/16/the-reader-book-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5972</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy @ My Friend Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 08:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=1024#comment-5972</guid>
		<description>Serena...very well said.  Excellent, excellent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serena&#8230;very well said.  Excellent, excellent.</p>
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		<title>By: Serena</title>
		<link>http://www.caribousmom.com/2008/08/16/the-reader-book-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5971</link>
		<dc:creator>Serena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 07:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=1024#comment-5971</guid>
		<description>Does anybody not see that by being illiterate, especially in a time when women had very few choices about careers, Hannah&#039;s lot in life was total oppression by the society in which she lived.  like a slave under absolute submission to his/her master, any sense of morality would have been early on eliminated from her sensibility as her life (e.g her mind) was never her own.  As a young woman she had had no ability to make moral decisions or judgments.  Survival was all she could relate to and also probably the only sense of happiness that she ever experienced was her young childhood--  before she would have had to know how to read to survive socially;  which could be why she felt the strong attraction to youth.  I don&#039;t believe the sex was for sex&#039; sake, but it was, for her (and this might be what is behind the pedophile mentality--though I&#039;m inclined to think that a woman&#039;s attraction to young men is totally different in motivation from a man&#039;s to a young girl--), I think her sexual impulse for him was not predatory, but rather the need for non-judgmental, innocent acceptance and affection, which this innocent youth could give her.  Having youth (in particular and especially infirm and weak youth) read to her, she would not have been judged by them and hence she was free from self-loathing and shame which her lack of reading ability had brought her all her adult life.  Her actions as a guard were never motivated by evil or hatred, any more than the house slave who is forced to lord over the field slave.  He has no moral drive or choice because it&#039;s been whipped out of him.  He does what he&#039;s told for survival and then as time goes on survival morphs into duty which, by doing his duty well, brings its own rewards of some fashion, reinforcing some sense of self-worth. This was the only &quot;morality&quot; she knew as an adult.  She didn&#039;t open the church door because years of oppressive societal (i.e Nazi) conditioning had resulted in the morality of orderliness vs chaos. The fact that 300 people were dying in the church was not the issue morally for her, because her morality was all messed up because of Nazi (societal) conditioning. It wasn&#039;t the same cowardly &quot;I did what I was told&quot; mentality that was  expressed by the other women in the court.  She never lied to the judge (as did the other women) but answered all questions without guile, with honesty and even with a sense of innocent confession. 

So, I believe that, while her deeds were evil,  her morality and motivation were misguided, similarly to the mentality that is conditioned to believe that genocide is justified for whatever doctrinal reason, if that&#039;s all theyve known.  It usually takes a strong moral re-conditioning of some sort that turns someone around who had believed that evil-doing was righteous; which is what happened to her at the end.  Her awakening by Michael&#039;s simple question about her thinking about the past resulted in jarring her self-loathing and contrition, hence her desire to give the money to the daughter.  Everyone deserves redemption, but so many are hardened to it by over-powering oppressive conditioning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anybody not see that by being illiterate, especially in a time when women had very few choices about careers, Hannah&#8217;s lot in life was total oppression by the society in which she lived.  like a slave under absolute submission to his/her master, any sense of morality would have been early on eliminated from her sensibility as her life (e.g her mind) was never her own.  As a young woman she had had no ability to make moral decisions or judgments.  Survival was all she could relate to and also probably the only sense of happiness that she ever experienced was her young childhood&#8211;  before she would have had to know how to read to survive socially;  which could be why she felt the strong attraction to youth.  I don&#8217;t believe the sex was for sex&#8217; sake, but it was, for her (and this might be what is behind the pedophile mentality&#8211;though I&#8217;m inclined to think that a woman&#8217;s attraction to young men is totally different in motivation from a man&#8217;s to a young girl&#8211;), I think her sexual impulse for him was not predatory, but rather the need for non-judgmental, innocent acceptance and affection, which this innocent youth could give her.  Having youth (in particular and especially infirm and weak youth) read to her, she would not have been judged by them and hence she was free from self-loathing and shame which her lack of reading ability had brought her all her adult life.  Her actions as a guard were never motivated by evil or hatred, any more than the house slave who is forced to lord over the field slave.  He has no moral drive or choice because it&#8217;s been whipped out of him.  He does what he&#8217;s told for survival and then as time goes on survival morphs into duty which, by doing his duty well, brings its own rewards of some fashion, reinforcing some sense of self-worth. This was the only &#8220;morality&#8221; she knew as an adult.  She didn&#8217;t open the church door because years of oppressive societal (i.e Nazi) conditioning had resulted in the morality of orderliness vs chaos. The fact that 300 people were dying in the church was not the issue morally for her, because her morality was all messed up because of Nazi (societal) conditioning. It wasn&#8217;t the same cowardly &#8220;I did what I was told&#8221; mentality that was  expressed by the other women in the court.  She never lied to the judge (as did the other women) but answered all questions without guile, with honesty and even with a sense of innocent confession. </p>
<p>So, I believe that, while her deeds were evil,  her morality and motivation were misguided, similarly to the mentality that is conditioned to believe that genocide is justified for whatever doctrinal reason, if that&#8217;s all theyve known.  It usually takes a strong moral re-conditioning of some sort that turns someone around who had believed that evil-doing was righteous; which is what happened to her at the end.  Her awakening by Michael&#8217;s simple question about her thinking about the past resulted in jarring her self-loathing and contrition, hence her desire to give the money to the daughter.  Everyone deserves redemption, but so many are hardened to it by over-powering oppressive conditioning.</p>
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		<title>By: Caribousmom</title>
		<link>http://www.caribousmom.com/2008/08/16/the-reader-book-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5953</link>
		<dc:creator>Caribousmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=1024#comment-5953</guid>
		<description>Jena: I am sorry I never responded to your comment! If you are still out there, I agree with you assessment!

Amy: This may be the first book we completely disagree about *smiles* I&#039;m with you on illiteracy, I just didn&#039;t think Schlink wrote a very good book about it (and it bothered me immensely that he put it on the same level as the Holocaust...I never bought that Hanna&#039;s illiteracy is what made her do the horrible things she did). I think this book tends to polarize people...either they love it or hate it. I&#039;ve seen equal amounts of comments on both sides.

Anna: I would be flattered if you wanted to link to my review...feel free to do so :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jena: I am sorry I never responded to your comment! If you are still out there, I agree with you assessment!</p>
<p>Amy: This may be the first book we completely disagree about *smiles* I&#8217;m with you on illiteracy, I just didn&#8217;t think Schlink wrote a very good book about it (and it bothered me immensely that he put it on the same level as the Holocaust&#8230;I never bought that Hanna&#8217;s illiteracy is what made her do the horrible things she did). I think this book tends to polarize people&#8230;either they love it or hate it. I&#8217;ve seen equal amounts of comments on both sides.</p>
<p>Anna: I would be flattered if you wanted to link to my review&#8230;feel free to do so <img src='http://www.caribousmom.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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