Comments on: Sunday Salon – February 7, 2010 http://www.caribousmom.com/2010/02/07/sunday-salon-february-7-2010/ reading a good book with a furchild by my side Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:14:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Caribousmom http://www.caribousmom.com/2010/02/07/sunday-salon-february-7-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-13660 Caribousmom Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:50:52 +0000 http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=6599#comment-13660 Lisa: Can't wait to see what you think of it...I agree, a book this long (and complex) should not be made even more difficult with grammar issues. Jenners: I am loving my "new" bedroom. At some point, I'll post some photos. Glad to see you agree with my position on grammar! Kim: If you agree with Les and me, yes, steer clear of Wolf Hall!!! The sage green in the bedroom has turned out very well, if I may say so myself! Jackie: Now I feel completely redeemed in my opinion of Wolf Hall since you and I nearly ALWAYS feel the same about books! I don't know if I am ever going to finish this book *sighs* Ravenous Reader: Yes, I agree ... Stephanie: I will be watching for your review of Wolf Hall ... Florinda: Although Mantel's "he" almost always refers to Cromwell, sometimes it doesn't (and sometimes she uses it in the same sentence more than once where it refers to Cromwell AND someone else)...which I find totally annoying and confusing. I hate having to re-read sentences to clarify. I will be interested in your review of this book at some point. Lisa: Can’t wait to see what you think of it…I agree, a book this long (and complex) should not be made even more difficult with grammar issues.

Jenners: I am loving my “new” bedroom. At some point, I’ll post some photos. Glad to see you agree with my position on grammar!

Kim: If you agree with Les and me, yes, steer clear of Wolf Hall!!! The sage green in the bedroom has turned out very well, if I may say so myself!

Jackie: Now I feel completely redeemed in my opinion of Wolf Hall since you and I nearly ALWAYS feel the same about books! I don’t know if I am ever going to finish this book *sighs*

Ravenous Reader: Yes, I agree …

Stephanie: I will be watching for your review of Wolf Hall …

Florinda: Although Mantel’s “he” almost always refers to Cromwell, sometimes it doesn’t (and sometimes she uses it in the same sentence more than once where it refers to Cromwell AND someone else)…which I find totally annoying and confusing. I hate having to re-read sentences to clarify. I will be interested in your review of this book at some point.

]]> By: Caribousmom http://www.caribousmom.com/2010/02/07/sunday-salon-february-7-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-13659 Caribousmom Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:45:16 +0000 http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=6599#comment-13659 Megan: You expressed why I am irritated with Wolf Hall much better than I did. Toying with grammar like this *is* jarring...and does seem a bit pretentious. I haven't yet finished the book...but her choice to overuse the pronoun "he" ... and neglect to connect it to a subject in the sentence will definitely taint my feelings about the book...which is a pity since I think she had an interested story to tell. Laura: This may be one book where we disagree (*gasp*). I am still largely irritated by this part of the book...the "he" thing is driving me mad!!! And I can't seem to finish this book either. At this rate, I may still be reading it into March. Literate Housewife: Thanks for sharing with me that you also struggled with the pronoun use in Wolf Hall. I do feel like I am missing a lot on the book because of it - and like you, I can only read this in small amounts at a time which is aggravating me to no end. Congrats on finishing your first Random Read :) Glad you are enjoying the challenge! Teresa: thanks for weighing in on Wolf Hall and grammar. I agree, Mantel's characterization is very good...but I do think her use (or misuse) of grammar is more a distraction than anything. I believe Mantel intentionally changed things ups grammatically...but I don't think it works. Diane: I'll be interested to get your opinion on the book once you've read it. This is one of the slowest reads I've had for a very, very long time. It is taking all of my perseverance not to quit reading it. DebNance: Glad you liked Keeping the Feast - food, friends, laughter...sounds like a great night to me! Kathy: I mostly feel over my head in Wolf Hall. This is one of those books which I think will not resonate with many readers. Ariel: Hope you get this comment! I actually like the use of present tense in Wolf Hall...but the grammar - URGHHHHH! Mantel is deliberate in her changing up the grammar, but in my opinion it is way overdone and irritating. I hope you'll read this book so I can see what you think! Megan: You expressed why I am irritated with Wolf Hall much better than I did. Toying with grammar like this *is* jarring…and does seem a bit pretentious. I haven’t yet finished the book…but her choice to overuse the pronoun “he” … and neglect to connect it to a subject in the sentence will definitely taint my feelings about the book…which is a pity since I think she had an interested story to tell.

Laura: This may be one book where we disagree (*gasp*). I am still largely irritated by this part of the book…the “he” thing is driving me mad!!! And I can’t seem to finish this book either. At this rate, I may still be reading it into March.

Literate Housewife: Thanks for sharing with me that you also struggled with the pronoun use in Wolf Hall. I do feel like I am missing a lot on the book because of it – and like you, I can only read this in small amounts at a time which is aggravating me to no end. Congrats on finishing your first Random Read :) Glad you are enjoying the challenge!

Teresa: thanks for weighing in on Wolf Hall and grammar. I agree, Mantel’s characterization is very good…but I do think her use (or misuse) of grammar is more a distraction than anything. I believe Mantel intentionally changed things ups grammatically…but I don’t think it works.

Diane: I’ll be interested to get your opinion on the book once you’ve read it. This is one of the slowest reads I’ve had for a very, very long time. It is taking all of my perseverance not to quit reading it.

DebNance: Glad you liked Keeping the Feast – food, friends, laughter…sounds like a great night to me!

Kathy: I mostly feel over my head in Wolf Hall. This is one of those books which I think will not resonate with many readers.

Ariel: Hope you get this comment! I actually like the use of present tense in Wolf Hall…but the grammar – URGHHHHH! Mantel is deliberate in her changing up the grammar, but in my opinion it is way overdone and irritating. I hope you’ll read this book so I can see what you think!

]]> By: Caribousmom http://www.caribousmom.com/2010/02/07/sunday-salon-february-7-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-13658 Caribousmom Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:30:31 +0000 http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=6599#comment-13658 Lu: Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the grammar issue...I agree that language changes and evolves...and I don't mind that; but I do have a problem when grammar is changed so much that it leaves the reader feeling confused about who is talking or acting. Some grammar, in my opinion, should be left alone!!! I know what you mean about commas - that is one of my pet peeves too...If I'm noticing them, then they are being overused :) Laurel: *nods* I do think Mantel crossed the line between clarity and confusion. I am STILL slogging through Wolf Hall and not really enjoying the journey anymore *sighs* JoAnn: I will be really interested to see what you think of Wolf Hall...will have to get caught up on my google reader soon so I don't miss your review! By the way, the sage green looks great on the walls! I am loving it :) Carolyn: I agree totally - it seems a gimmick and like you, I find the characters interesting and I like seeing things from a different perspective, but the arbitrary use of "he" is definitely distracting to me. Les: *laughs* I think you would hate this book! I am still not done with it, and really just want to heave it against a wall at this point. Grrrrrr! El Fay: Thank you for sharing your thoughts about this subject...you make some good points. I guess I am more of a traditionalist when it comes to literature...although I have loved some novels which could be classified as experimental (David Mitchell's <i>Cloud Atlas</i> comes to mind...and that one is right up there among the best books I've read). I just don't think Mantel's experiment with grammar was successful (for me anyway). It made the reading so slow, and confusing at times. I know some people love it...but that said, many people mention it as a distraction too. Jeanie: Thank you! I am so behind in responding to emails, etc...but I promise, I'll be by later today :) Lu: Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the grammar issue…I agree that language changes and evolves…and I don’t mind that; but I do have a problem when grammar is changed so much that it leaves the reader feeling confused about who is talking or acting. Some grammar, in my opinion, should be left alone!!! I know what you mean about commas – that is one of my pet peeves too…If I’m noticing them, then they are being overused :)

Laurel: *nods* I do think Mantel crossed the line between clarity and confusion. I am STILL slogging through Wolf Hall and not really enjoying the journey anymore *sighs*

JoAnn: I will be really interested to see what you think of Wolf Hall…will have to get caught up on my google reader soon so I don’t miss your review! By the way, the sage green looks great on the walls! I am loving it :)

Carolyn: I agree totally – it seems a gimmick and like you, I find the characters interesting and I like seeing things from a different perspective, but the arbitrary use of “he” is definitely distracting to me.

Les: *laughs* I think you would hate this book! I am still not done with it, and really just want to heave it against a wall at this point. Grrrrrr!

El Fay: Thank you for sharing your thoughts about this subject…you make some good points. I guess I am more of a traditionalist when it comes to literature…although I have loved some novels which could be classified as experimental (David Mitchell’s Cloud Atlas comes to mind…and that one is right up there among the best books I’ve read). I just don’t think Mantel’s experiment with grammar was successful (for me anyway). It made the reading so slow, and confusing at times. I know some people love it…but that said, many people mention it as a distraction too.

Jeanie: Thank you! I am so behind in responding to emails, etc…but I promise, I’ll be by later today :)

]]> By: Florinda http://www.caribousmom.com/2010/02/07/sunday-salon-february-7-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-13556 Florinda Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:16:17 +0000 http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=6599#comment-13556 I'd heard about Mantel's use of pronouns from other readers, and as long as she's fairly consistent about it (as Laura mentioned, my understanding is that most of the "he"'s refer to Cromwell) I don't know if it would get in my way all that much. Speaking more generally, on the topic of grammar, however...I understand that it evolves. Spoken usage has always been less formal than written, and practices once frowned upon (split infinitives, ending sentences with prepositions) may become accepted conventions over time. The basic rules still matter, though, and one reason that they exist is to help make communication clearer and more effective. When creative or improper grammar gets in the way of the story, I think it's a problem. Great question, Wendy! I’d heard about Mantel’s use of pronouns from other readers, and as long as she’s fairly consistent about it (as Laura mentioned, my understanding is that most of the “he”‘s refer to Cromwell) I don’t know if it would get in my way all that much.

Speaking more generally, on the topic of grammar, however…I understand that it evolves. Spoken usage has always been less formal than written, and practices once frowned upon (split infinitives, ending sentences with prepositions) may become accepted conventions over time. The basic rules still matter, though, and one reason that they exist is to help make communication clearer and more effective. When creative or improper grammar gets in the way of the story, I think it’s a problem.

Great question, Wendy!

]]> By: Stephanie http://www.caribousmom.com/2010/02/07/sunday-salon-february-7-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-13551 Stephanie Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:05:35 +0000 http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=6599#comment-13551 Hmmmm . . . very interesting in regards to Mantel's grammar. I haven't read the book yet, but I have it and I plan to. It will be interesting to see how I respond to her writing. Stylistically, I am not opposed to bending the grammar rules a bit--like Jackie mentioned, I almost never mind punctuation issues but it has to be done well and lend the the story itself. Hmmmm . . . very interesting in regards to Mantel’s grammar. I haven’t read the book yet, but I have it and I plan to. It will be interesting to see how I respond to her writing. Stylistically, I am not opposed to bending the grammar rules a bit–like Jackie mentioned, I almost never mind punctuation issues but it has to be done well and lend the the story itself.

]]> By: ravenous reader http://www.caribousmom.com/2010/02/07/sunday-salon-february-7-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-13550 ravenous reader Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:04:45 +0000 http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=6599#comment-13550 That bit of grammar play bothered me in Wolf Hall...I do recognize the reason she did it, but think we need to be awfully careful about throwing grammar rules to the wind. That bit of grammar play bothered me in Wolf Hall…I do recognize the reason she did it, but think we need to be awfully careful about throwing grammar rules to the wind.

]]> By: Jackie (Farm Lane Books) http://www.caribousmom.com/2010/02/07/sunday-salon-february-7-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-13549 Jackie (Farm Lane Books) Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:37:50 +0000 http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=6599#comment-13549 I had real trouble with Wolf Hall! I got very frustrated with it and ended up not finishing it. Sometimes grammar doesn't matter (Saramago's lack of punctuation doesn't bother me) but Mantel's confusing grammar issues really annoy me. I look forward to seeing what you think of the book once you've made it to the end. I had real trouble with Wolf Hall! I got very frustrated with it and ended up not finishing it. Sometimes grammar doesn’t matter (Saramago’s lack of punctuation doesn’t bother me) but Mantel’s confusing grammar issues really annoy me. I look forward to seeing what you think of the book once you’ve made it to the end.

]]> By: Kim http://www.caribousmom.com/2010/02/07/sunday-salon-february-7-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-13547 Kim Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:56:24 +0000 http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=6599#comment-13547 Like Les in Nebraska-my answer is No, No, and No! Without rules we have chaos--on every level. I don't think Wolf Hall will be on my list any time soon. I too, do not enjoy the feeling that I am reading--I want to just find myself lost in the story. Your bedroom sounds like it will be simply lovely-sage green is a favorite color of mine. *smiles* Like Les in Nebraska-my answer is No, No, and No! Without rules we have chaos–on every level. I don’t think Wolf Hall will be on my list any time soon. I too, do not enjoy the feeling that I am reading–I want to just find myself lost in the story.
Your bedroom sounds like it will be simply lovely-sage green is a favorite color of mine.
*smiles*

]]> By: Jenners http://www.caribousmom.com/2010/02/07/sunday-salon-february-7-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-13546 Jenners Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:37:20 +0000 http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=6599#comment-13546 Your bedroom makeover sounds lovely. Isn't it fun to do things like that? It is like getting a whole new place. And I think grammar matters. It can be very distracting. Spelling errors or using words wrong make me crazy. Your bedroom makeover sounds lovely. Isn’t it fun to do things like that? It is like getting a whole new place.

And I think grammar matters. It can be very distracting. Spelling errors or using words wrong make me crazy.

]]> By: Lisa http://www.caribousmom.com/2010/02/07/sunday-salon-february-7-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-13545 Lisa Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:36:40 +0000 http://www.caribousmom.com/?p=6599#comment-13545 I'm sure I'll read "Wolf Hall" at some point but the grammar issues are going to be a major problem for me. I have heard other people mention this. It seems odd to make it even harder for the reader when you've already got them pushing through a tome this long. I’m sure I’ll read “Wolf Hall” at some point but the grammar issues are going to be a major problem for me. I have heard other people mention this. It seems odd to make it even harder for the reader when you’ve already got them pushing through a tome this long.

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